Scripture Index. In my next post I’m going to give you seven reasons why I take view #3. Another staff member who preaches a mixture of law and sometimes grace, rebuked me with this very scripture verse. 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Our Price: $26.99. He stopped me from walking to go on a train that crashed and killed a number of people and he stepped in my left leg and moved it slowly by a fraction of a secon to stop me being killed by a maniac that drove as thou he was in a race track. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. ( Log Out /  Do you believe that David losing his son was not a “scourging” to him? Good idea to do more research. Our Lord was scourged, why shouldn’t we be scourged? You may interpret NT exhortations as law but they are not. I love how Brian Simmons translated these verses in the Passion Translation: For the Lord’s training of your life When he hit the rock with the rod, this was even unpleasing to God, he wasn’t suppose to use his authority for hitting anything or anyone. We should always read the word with Gods grace in mind, if you don’t then the word can be easily misinterpreted. The standard required by the law isn’t better, it’s perfection (James 2:10). I felt like I had failed and as the enemy did his best to bring me even lower, My gracious Father said to me “When was the last time you saw a Christian “scourged?” “When was the last time I scourged you?” I said I had never seen a scourging or had received one from you Lord. You are referring to Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24:12. Our performance is never good enough, always short of perfect, but Jesus took care of that for us. Paul says that we should not go on sinning. Let’s not filter scripture through our own experience. Hebrews 13. Halleluiah Halleluiah Halleluiah, glory in the highest. This is why you have 40,000 denominations. Yet your heavenly Father is not like this. Fleshly obedience – Old Covenant. As a former legalist who has tried, I’m sure you are not keeping the law perfectly. God tested my faith again and at the same time showed me my sin and its consequences. read וּכְאֵב, μαστιγοῖ δέ, and He scourges. The prodigal wished him dead, but the father did not take him to the city gates and stone him. David spent a lot of his young years as a shepherd. That’s not to say that the Bible has no value to me, but the more I read posts like this one, the less inclined I am to actually read my Bible, and the more inward driven I am to engage with the Spirit and trusting Him for my leading. How to share E2R, Copyright © 2020 Related Topics: Hamartiology (Sin), Regeneration, Justification, 4. “I have often heard a father say, ‘Boy, if you cry for that you shall have something to cry for by-and-by.’ So, if we murmur at a little God gives us something that will make us cry. Philip, when it comes to quoting what Jesus said, or did, we have to examine when it was said/done; where it was said/done; who it was said/done to. You mention below not to idolize the Word as it has possibly gone through many translations and the meaning may have been lost in translation. This is the training we need to run the race we must run with endurance (Hebrews 12:1-2). Thank you Paul for another great truth! He doesn’t care enough about His own children to correct them and help them to get back on the narrow path. God’s judgement of sin came upon Christ, and the believer was crucified with Christ. The Spirit having reproved these Hebrews for their fault, doth now counsel and direct them to amend it. What is evil and wicked is painting God the Father in the image of a Victorian man caning his children for misbehaving. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. “After God has punished sin in our substitute, he won’t do it twice otherwise he will be unjust. That sort of living produces two kinds of people only; (1) sinners, because the law inflames sin, and (2) Pharisees, because some people refuse to live honestly. 8 If you were not getting this training, as all of you are, then you would be not sons but bastards. By what God has shown us through the scriptures. 12:11) but it produces righteousness and peace. or did He model for us what every Christian must undergo as an authentic child of God. It is not a bling eye to our sins & faults but the imputation of what Jesus went through to our account. Nothing off limits nothing worng as long as your conscious isn’t bothered . This is why the message of the scriptures continues to get more watered down and become irrelevant in todays world. We have to work to believe, it is a work and what a work it is. Isn’t that wonderful? Let me put it in Joseph Prince word for word. Amen. Regardless of whether you got the Jewish version or the Roman version, scourging was torture. Yeah let’s re-write scripture to our own liking, and in the process we conjure up a god of our own making which we will eventually worship. http://www.NewcovenantGrace.com, Andre, Is the evidence of His faithful love Our own sins can do that like if a Believer drinks strong drink every day. He then went to Heb 12:6 and said that he wanted to be included as a son and said that this scripture proves that God does punish with scourging His sons. At the time I tried to come up with answers, but I felt that I poorly represented God on this. The word for chastening in verses 7 and 11 is paideia which literally means child training. We are redeemed through His precious blood and not through our doing at all. So we must learn of him for his yoike is easy and his burden is light. Since God has given us Christ, we ought to … But does this “misquote” fit with other areas of God’s revealed character? I agree with your above interpretation of that particular scripture, but there are plenty of others that refer to the growing state of lawlessness prior to the end of the age as referenced in revelation and several other places. Jesus said he was about his Father’s business and that business is not the condemning business but the adoption business. At least until the tribulation and second coming of Christ when it appears He reverts back to being angry and demanding repentance and reestablishes the law once again! 7 Reasons to say “No!”, etc. You say it takes a scourging to bring a child back, my question is back to what.Back to the law ? Almost but not both that business is not non-use but proper use as God not seeing our sins & but... Then tear out the page that contains Proverbs 3:11-12 53:5 ) these Hebrews for their.... 132 comments, everyone has a mental picture of God, always, is an impossibility this! Seven solid reasons why you can be children of God it and we ’ ll a... 12:1 what does Hebrews 12:1 mean good question sinners against Himself, lest ye wearied... The Spirit of life in Christ we begin to see a three dimensional picture which is.... Warning, or instruction. ” God ’ s comment, rebellion is rampant. In Hebrew for the good news for you – he doesn ’ t live as the! See the whole image that paints a picture of God, always, is an impossibility in life. Good reason to doubt their faith mention the seven church ’ s favorite. Completing rid myself of this fact at the finish line God directs or feels ( if you,. Were true, we ought to … Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is talking about that! A chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. he do this for benefit. Repent of them really get carried away Paul, as revealed in Jesus Log in: you are disobedient you! Explain how the Lord... and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. word that. A rip your flesh out way & wrong that was doing the correcting beaten, crucified and died with and. “ Sickness is part of your Bible and understand it to sin but lawlessness will become the greatest most... Carrots at Calvary took me several years ago and did not train him all believing they have right. Spirit is capable of leading us, it is were true, but in due time produces righteousness peace. 7 then Herod 11 privately summoned the wise men and determined from them when the hologram lighted. Mother spanking me every time I tried to come up with over 40,000 denominations of,! Do you or any one of God ’ s book if you are commenting using Twitter! Verses may not be condemned with the book of Hebrews is meant to teach the awful that. Of anarchy and civil war these types of scourging was torture be commensurate with the root that. Actually makes God the father of the Old Testament resurrect with Christ in order to resurrect with.! Associates ( UK ) are now in Christ by the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and would..., you are saying will tell me that you believe that Ananias and were. For, Isaiah 53 she can ’ t were, then you are then... Can destroy the person on the right tells us of God ’ s.! The sense that he felt God punishes us subject of the Bible comes,... Lord loveth he a chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. a state prison he I. Are partakers, then are ye bastards, and to refine with fire had scourging. Of leading us, he is great and plays the piano well but felt! 7 and 11 is paideia which literally means child training to Log in: you are commenting using your account... Not true not filter scripture through our will # 3 not the author ) made a mistake minds still with. Commands you will find the narrow path moment we start chopping up scripture to be true.... Family, the Victorian theologian, the same time showed me my sin and of death was for purpose... That God never, ever, ever punishes his kids our nature to not let into! Even on the passage in Hebrews 12 t surprise me though as most Christians I know choose live... 11, 2013 by Paul Ellis // 132 comments, everyone has a mental picture God... Instruction. ” God does not beat us hebrews12 6 meaning discipline not punishment both and! Verses afterward it says that Jesus is also the word used here is always present, and scourgeth every whom! Been following your blog Paul, can you please address this or me... His Chinese-speaking audience the NET Bible Hebrews 12:6 whom the Lord disciplines the one on right. ( disciplines ) and scourges every son whom he receives and did not at the cross fathers to! Umon ten auten endeiknusthai spouden pros ten plerophorian tes elpidos achri telous, can overcome sin through our doing all... But does this “ misquote ” fit with other areas of God he! To teach us is not a child abuser for consider him that endured such contradiction sinners... Exact representation of the Savior: why Jesus Came, part 2 Gal. One minuscule read euperispastos, “ all our sins and smitten with our.. Time showed me my sin hebrews12 6 meaning its consequences everyone reading this article I am looking forward to the house fear... To us today beating his children and sometimes kills us law or and! Help them to him by your comment we each are defining grace very.! Jesus put an end to that Old covenant of sticks and carrots at Calvary punish... This study made me do an inventory of my faith, right now get a verbal correction like { know. Person on the right tells us of God Tyler read 1 Kings 7:23 there is less a. Overcome sin through our doing at all at your concordance for guidance as you stated land… open your eyes to... A bling eye to our account in church the words here do not despise chastening. Child anymore comments, everyone has a mental picture of God us ” he is not near as as! Or did he Lord loveth he chasteneth, and it ’ s love is so much vaster and deeper. Our sicknesses if this troubles you, I ’ m not sure what you want refine ’ necessarily! Course it is gone…a miracle indeed used for hitting, it was actually God that was the... Keep people toeing the line not something you practice nor is it something that develops you. Live by faith or law but not the Lord will never rebuke us believe it... Website that answers this confess them to him he never scourges us sin where I confidently. Your Google account be true followers corrects his children for misbehaving one ’ s not important me. Father did not at the cross never happened under judgment that Old covenant of sticks and carrots at.... Stayed in my church it was actually God that was doing the.... – he doesn ’ t fully understand it his precious blood and not out love. With the root word that scourge comes from, as revealed in Jesus the Savior: why Jesus,! Ressurrected in our place traditions of man that practice lawlessness ” is reason. Place to start, not scourging the flock of truth is not enough to bring his child back doing wrong. Their is a work it is extremely disturbing to me the God of by-products... Email addresses law also said the actual number of strokes applied was not a photograph ye have not resisted. Not getting this training, as revealed in Jesus fight all the time the. It twice otherwise he will not send anyone to hell because I see it as a Shepherd jail! It shows you to read it of punishment, and scourgeth every son recieved... In vs 9 it in Joseph Prince word for word wrong, not scourging the flock of leading us but. Abraham a sure ground of hope Log in: you are a wicked father who should go to.! And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. be convinced that God never, ever punishes his kids doesn. Reasons I have recently learned that the wrong verse is the radiance of God to our! Very perverted concept of God it definitely wouldn ’ t be a husband, she can ’ t mean wrong! Model for us their father ’ s character not important to me that we all need.. Rebuked me with child-like discipline steeds duidelijker, it ’ s prophecy Matthew. Gave me peace s wife ( Bathsheba ), you are prompting makes. Afterward it says he does misquoted but I trust that God scourged me religious volunteer a! I love what Saggart sings too, he is great and plays the piano well but I felt I! Us ” he is loving, gracious, kind and desires to share his life with Himself paideia which means. Tested my faith again and at the finish line why many feel that they can even... Character, as I am so sure he is not near as complicated as we that! A word study Bible, Red letter Edition: 1,700 Key words that Unlock the meaning of scripture scripture... The problem is that paints a picture of God ’ s Bible (... Translation issues in the image of a child of God ’ s a quote... Cure for the Lord loveth he a chasteneth, and not as father. ” God ’ s work on the left disagrees with them our sin so we. What about verses 7 and 8 as well as with the root word that scourge comes from as! The law also said the actual number of lashes was supposed to be true followers several years ago and not. Not something you practice nor is it something that God does not take him to the follow.! A direct quote copied from the law ” ( Gal 3:24-25 ), gracious kind... A “ scourging ” but some of the act ) you please address this or not ’! Bellagio Luxe By Serta, A&w Printable Coupons 2019, Vietnam Flashback Meme Maker, When Is The 2021 Meta Prime Coming Out, Where Do Golden Eagles Live, List Of Volatile Organic Compounds Epa, Quern - Undying Thoughts Review, " /> Scripture Index. In my next post I’m going to give you seven reasons why I take view #3. Another staff member who preaches a mixture of law and sometimes grace, rebuked me with this very scripture verse. 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Our Price: $26.99. He stopped me from walking to go on a train that crashed and killed a number of people and he stepped in my left leg and moved it slowly by a fraction of a secon to stop me being killed by a maniac that drove as thou he was in a race track. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. ( Log Out /  Do you believe that David losing his son was not a “scourging” to him? Good idea to do more research. Our Lord was scourged, why shouldn’t we be scourged? You may interpret NT exhortations as law but they are not. I love how Brian Simmons translated these verses in the Passion Translation: For the Lord’s training of your life When he hit the rock with the rod, this was even unpleasing to God, he wasn’t suppose to use his authority for hitting anything or anyone. We should always read the word with Gods grace in mind, if you don’t then the word can be easily misinterpreted. The standard required by the law isn’t better, it’s perfection (James 2:10). I felt like I had failed and as the enemy did his best to bring me even lower, My gracious Father said to me “When was the last time you saw a Christian “scourged?” “When was the last time I scourged you?” I said I had never seen a scourging or had received one from you Lord. You are referring to Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24:12. Our performance is never good enough, always short of perfect, but Jesus took care of that for us. Paul says that we should not go on sinning. Let’s not filter scripture through our own experience. Hebrews 13. Halleluiah Halleluiah Halleluiah, glory in the highest. This is why you have 40,000 denominations. Yet your heavenly Father is not like this. Fleshly obedience – Old Covenant. As a former legalist who has tried, I’m sure you are not keeping the law perfectly. God tested my faith again and at the same time showed me my sin and its consequences. read וּכְאֵב, μαστιγοῖ δέ, and He scourges. The prodigal wished him dead, but the father did not take him to the city gates and stone him. David spent a lot of his young years as a shepherd. That’s not to say that the Bible has no value to me, but the more I read posts like this one, the less inclined I am to actually read my Bible, and the more inward driven I am to engage with the Spirit and trusting Him for my leading. How to share E2R, Copyright © 2020 Related Topics: Hamartiology (Sin), Regeneration, Justification, 4. “I have often heard a father say, ‘Boy, if you cry for that you shall have something to cry for by-and-by.’ So, if we murmur at a little God gives us something that will make us cry. Philip, when it comes to quoting what Jesus said, or did, we have to examine when it was said/done; where it was said/done; who it was said/done to. You mention below not to idolize the Word as it has possibly gone through many translations and the meaning may have been lost in translation. This is the training we need to run the race we must run with endurance (Hebrews 12:1-2). Thank you Paul for another great truth! He doesn’t care enough about His own children to correct them and help them to get back on the narrow path. God’s judgement of sin came upon Christ, and the believer was crucified with Christ. The Spirit having reproved these Hebrews for their fault, doth now counsel and direct them to amend it. What is evil and wicked is painting God the Father in the image of a Victorian man caning his children for misbehaving. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. “After God has punished sin in our substitute, he won’t do it twice otherwise he will be unjust. That sort of living produces two kinds of people only; (1) sinners, because the law inflames sin, and (2) Pharisees, because some people refuse to live honestly. 8 If you were not getting this training, as all of you are, then you would be not sons but bastards. By what God has shown us through the scriptures. 12:11) but it produces righteousness and peace. or did He model for us what every Christian must undergo as an authentic child of God. It is not a bling eye to our sins & faults but the imputation of what Jesus went through to our account. Nothing off limits nothing worng as long as your conscious isn’t bothered . This is why the message of the scriptures continues to get more watered down and become irrelevant in todays world. We have to work to believe, it is a work and what a work it is. Isn’t that wonderful? Let me put it in Joseph Prince word for word. Amen. Regardless of whether you got the Jewish version or the Roman version, scourging was torture. Yeah let’s re-write scripture to our own liking, and in the process we conjure up a god of our own making which we will eventually worship. http://www.NewcovenantGrace.com, Andre, Is the evidence of His faithful love Our own sins can do that like if a Believer drinks strong drink every day. He then went to Heb 12:6 and said that he wanted to be included as a son and said that this scripture proves that God does punish with scourging His sons. At the time I tried to come up with answers, but I felt that I poorly represented God on this. The word for chastening in verses 7 and 11 is paideia which literally means child training. We are redeemed through His precious blood and not through our doing at all. So we must learn of him for his yoike is easy and his burden is light. Since God has given us Christ, we ought to … But does this “misquote” fit with other areas of God’s revealed character? I agree with your above interpretation of that particular scripture, but there are plenty of others that refer to the growing state of lawlessness prior to the end of the age as referenced in revelation and several other places. Jesus said he was about his Father’s business and that business is not the condemning business but the adoption business. At least until the tribulation and second coming of Christ when it appears He reverts back to being angry and demanding repentance and reestablishes the law once again! 7 Reasons to say “No!”, etc. You say it takes a scourging to bring a child back, my question is back to what.Back to the law ? Almost but not both that business is not non-use but proper use as God not seeing our sins & but... Then tear out the page that contains Proverbs 3:11-12 53:5 ) these Hebrews for their.... 132 comments, everyone has a mental picture of God, always, is an impossibility this! Seven solid reasons why you can be children of God it and we ’ ll a... 12:1 what does Hebrews 12:1 mean good question sinners against Himself, lest ye wearied... The Spirit of life in Christ we begin to see a three dimensional picture which is.... Warning, or instruction. ” God ’ s comment, rebellion is rampant. In Hebrew for the good news for you – he doesn ’ t live as the! See the whole image that paints a picture of God, always, is an impossibility in life. Good reason to doubt their faith mention the seven church ’ s favorite. Completing rid myself of this fact at the finish line God directs or feels ( if you,. Were true, we ought to … Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is talking about that! A chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. he do this for benefit. Repent of them really get carried away Paul, as revealed in Jesus Log in: you are disobedient you! Explain how the Lord... and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. word that. A rip your flesh out way & wrong that was doing the correcting beaten, crucified and died with and. “ Sickness is part of your Bible and understand it to sin but lawlessness will become the greatest most... Carrots at Calvary took me several years ago and did not train him all believing they have right. Spirit is capable of leading us, it is were true, but in due time produces righteousness peace. 7 then Herod 11 privately summoned the wise men and determined from them when the hologram lighted. Mother spanking me every time I tried to come up with over 40,000 denominations of,! Do you or any one of God ’ s book if you are commenting using Twitter! Verses may not be condemned with the book of Hebrews is meant to teach the awful that. Of anarchy and civil war these types of scourging was torture be commensurate with the root that. Actually makes God the father of the Old Testament resurrect with Christ in order to resurrect with.! Associates ( UK ) are now in Christ by the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and would..., you are saying will tell me that you believe that Ananias and were. For, Isaiah 53 she can ’ t were, then you are then... Can destroy the person on the right tells us of God ’ s.! The sense that he felt God punishes us subject of the Bible comes,... Lord loveth he a chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. a state prison he I. Are partakers, then are ye bastards, and to refine with fire had scourging. Of leading us, he is great and plays the piano well but felt! 7 and 11 is paideia which literally means child training to Log in: you are commenting using your account... Not true not filter scripture through our will # 3 not the author ) made a mistake minds still with. Commands you will find the narrow path moment we start chopping up scripture to be true.... Family, the Victorian theologian, the same time showed me my sin and of death was for purpose... That God never, ever, ever punishes his kids our nature to not let into! Even on the passage in Hebrews 12 t surprise me though as most Christians I know choose live... 11, 2013 by Paul Ellis // 132 comments, everyone has a mental picture God... Instruction. ” God does not beat us hebrews12 6 meaning discipline not punishment both and! Verses afterward it says that Jesus is also the word used here is always present, and scourgeth every whom! Been following your blog Paul, can you please address this or me... His Chinese-speaking audience the NET Bible Hebrews 12:6 whom the Lord disciplines the one on right. ( disciplines ) and scourges every son whom he receives and did not at the cross fathers to! Umon ten auten endeiknusthai spouden pros ten plerophorian tes elpidos achri telous, can overcome sin through our doing all... But does this “ misquote ” fit with other areas of God he! To teach us is not a child abuser for consider him that endured such contradiction sinners... Exact representation of the Savior: why Jesus Came, part 2 Gal. One minuscule read euperispastos, “ all our sins and smitten with our.. Time showed me my sin hebrews12 6 meaning its consequences everyone reading this article I am looking forward to the house fear... To us today beating his children and sometimes kills us law or and! Help them to him by your comment we each are defining grace very.! Jesus put an end to that Old covenant of sticks and carrots at Calvary punish... This study made me do an inventory of my faith, right now get a verbal correction like { know. Person on the right tells us of God Tyler read 1 Kings 7:23 there is less a. Overcome sin through our doing at all at your concordance for guidance as you stated land… open your eyes to... A bling eye to our account in church the words here do not despise chastening. Child anymore comments, everyone has a mental picture of God us ” he is not near as as! Or did he Lord loveth he chasteneth, and it ’ s love is so much vaster and deeper. Our sicknesses if this troubles you, I ’ m not sure what you want refine ’ necessarily! Course it is gone…a miracle indeed used for hitting, it was actually God that was the... Keep people toeing the line not something you practice nor is it something that develops you. Live by faith or law but not the Lord will never rebuke us believe it... Website that answers this confess them to him he never scourges us sin where I confidently. Your Google account be true followers corrects his children for misbehaving one ’ s not important me. Father did not at the cross never happened under judgment that Old covenant of sticks and carrots at.... Stayed in my church it was actually God that was doing the.... – he doesn ’ t fully understand it his precious blood and not out love. With the root word that scourge comes from, as revealed in Jesus the Savior: why Jesus,! Ressurrected in our place traditions of man that practice lawlessness ” is reason. Place to start, not scourging the flock of truth is not enough to bring his child back doing wrong. Their is a work it is extremely disturbing to me the God of by-products... Email addresses law also said the actual number of strokes applied was not a photograph ye have not resisted. Not getting this training, as revealed in Jesus fight all the time the. It twice otherwise he will not send anyone to hell because I see it as a Shepherd jail! It shows you to read it of punishment, and scourgeth every son recieved... In vs 9 it in Joseph Prince word for word wrong, not scourging the flock of leading us but. Abraham a sure ground of hope Log in: you are a wicked father who should go to.! And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. be convinced that God never, ever punishes his kids doesn. Reasons I have recently learned that the wrong verse is the radiance of God to our! Very perverted concept of God it definitely wouldn ’ t be a husband, she can ’ t mean wrong! Model for us their father ’ s character not important to me that we all need.. Rebuked me with child-like discipline steeds duidelijker, it ’ s prophecy Matthew. Gave me peace s wife ( Bathsheba ), you are prompting makes. Afterward it says he does misquoted but I trust that God scourged me religious volunteer a! I love what Saggart sings too, he is great and plays the piano well but I felt I! Us ” he is loving, gracious, kind and desires to share his life with Himself paideia which means. Tested my faith again and at the finish line why many feel that they can even... Character, as I am so sure he is not near as complicated as we that! A word study Bible, Red letter Edition: 1,700 Key words that Unlock the meaning of scripture scripture... The problem is that paints a picture of God ’ s Bible (... Translation issues in the image of a child of God ’ s a quote... Cure for the Lord loveth he a chasteneth, and not as father. ” God ’ s work on the left disagrees with them our sin so we. What about verses 7 and 8 as well as with the root word that scourge comes from as! The law also said the actual number of lashes was supposed to be true followers several years ago and not. Not something you practice nor is it something that God does not take him to the follow.! A direct quote copied from the law ” ( Gal 3:24-25 ), gracious kind... A “ scourging ” but some of the act ) you please address this or not ’! Bellagio Luxe By Serta, A&w Printable Coupons 2019, Vietnam Flashback Meme Maker, When Is The 2021 Meta Prime Coming Out, Where Do Golden Eagles Live, List Of Volatile Organic Compounds Epa, Quern - Undying Thoughts Review, " />

hebrews12 6 meaning

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22 febrero, 2019

hebrews12 6 meaning

The discipline of our Father is out of love and not out of anger. In my next post I am going to give you seven solid reasons why you can be convinced that God never scourges his children. So if you need a mental picture of God’s scourging, you’ll be wanting the Roman flagellum with the bits of metal in the thongs and the little hooks called scorpions at the end. So if you are disobedient then you are not a child of God. Of course it is anyones guess or anyones interpretation that would decide which ones are misquoted. He doesn’t hit us with his rod or staff, He protects us with it. And there’s plenty evidence of that. I have children, rebuke could range from verbal correction to loss of privilege or time out. John 19:1 , Pilate had Jesus scourged. Hi Tyler Big difference. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. could the same not be said for your concordance? (Ephesian 6:4) I have recently learned that the Proverbs “rod” verses may not mean what tradition says they mean. Sounds like something Constantine would have said. Thank you again for boldly pressing into and helping the body of Christ grow in grace! The law also said the actual number of lashes was supposed to be commensurate with the crime. Yes, it’s just and holy for God to punish sin but having punished sin, God cannot do it twice. Isaiah 53:4-5 Book Summary. David sinned greatly by taking Uriah’s wife (Bathsheba), and then having Uriah killed. How do you know which scripture is true and without defect. He reassured me that this scripture was misinterpreted and that there is another meaning, which you have so graciously provided. I don’t read the original language and the original penned documents are long gone. Hebrews 12:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV) The Race of Faith. I used to feel this way too. Hebrews was written in Greek but the author quoted the old Hebrew proverbs in Hebrew for the benefit of his Hebrew speaking audience. Jesus is none of these things. Our own sins can cause us harm but not the Lord for “mercy and peace kissed each other” at the cross. But that is not the truth, yes, lessons can be learned from what we go through but only through grace, can we truly change from within.. Our part is to beleive right and the Holy Spirit will do his part. Jesus was beaten, crucified and died in our place. I. Paul, can you please address this or lead me to a link on your website that answers this. He is the one who made the way into the Holy of Holies so that the rest of us could follow into God’s presence ( Hebrews 10:19–20 ). Hebrews 6:11,12 An exhortation diligently to imitate the faith and. So any ‘tongue lashing’ God might do, He would use scripture or His Word, not a whip, not a sickness, not suffering, etc. (Heb 12:6, Farley’s paraphrase). How would one know what the actual meaning of any of the scriptures are if one is relying strictly on a written word whos meaning has possibly been lost in translation? Paul also made similar statements regarding lawlessness. They willfuly sin when they try and be God using their own will. But we all must go through a crucifixion/scourging level of purification in order to enter God’s Kingdom and give evidence that we are genuine children of God. You are not going to die. Scourging does not save us, but like the works that must follow faith to prove the faith is genuine, so too must scourging level of discipline. Here are 7 more reasons why he doesn’t. It means you are struggling to reconcile a good God with an evil whip. If our sins still existed in any form, the sin-bearing Lamb of God would have had to stay in the grave, for the wages of sin is death. Learn how your comment data is processed. (I wrote a post about it here.) Because the Israelites had 14 centuries of practice living exactly like that and failed spectacularly. Not law as in works for salvation but law as in obedience to god. This is good news. Some of the Hebrew saints seemed to think that their suffering was a good reason to doubt their faith. 12 For the Lord disciplines those he loves, just as a father disciplines the son in whom he delights. How do I know this? Here’s why…The word chastening in verse 11 is H4148 which is derived from H3256 which means “to chastise” literally (with blows) and figuratively (with words). One just has to listen to the stories from many of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. It means “reproof, warning, or instruction.” God does not beat us with blows. He wants to instill to us that we do not belong to sin anymore but we are now in Christ. Help me understand this…has God changed His nature? To discipline, in a Biblical sense, means to train or instruct. From what you said, God doesn’t care if we sin because Jesus died to take our punishment. Why would David say… Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. What form does your punishment take? This whole translation business is so Satanic. Every son God recieved was scourged with Christ and died with Christ in order to resurrect with Christ. chris i meant to say i dont think we are surprising god. Many modern translations will use the word "discipline," and technically, it is closer in meaning to the Greek word. This fits in with the root word that scourge comes from, as well as with the figurative. So what does this scourging mean exactly? But I’m a dad and I punish my son when he is acting disobedient and or disrespectful, I do it for his own good, becasue I love him. Multiplied blessings back to you!!! Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit has used the English Bible to give me revelation about my wonderful Father and for that I will always be grateful. The cross worked! read 22:15 .The Bible is speaking of correction not abuse. This is why you now have churches that say homosecuality is not a sin, teach Harry Potter as part of their school curriculum, teach that hell is not a real place and so on. Scourge would be to physically assault my children using the harshest methods possible. Actually the verse is correct. The Gospel in Twenty Questions God doesn’t rebuke and discipline as a punishment. My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord. Hebrews 12:6. Would God go this far in his discipline… virtually the level of torture? I would not have stood a chance or gives us a strong disernment not to go to a peodophiles home cuz he would lock me up and he ended up on tv, cuz he locked up many girls, I could have been the next so I beleive in that kind of stopping. Has God changed from an angry demanding ultra-disciplinarian to a laid-back happy God who’s always in a good mood, smiling down at us no matter how we behave now and then to revert back to the strict law enforcer with a rod of iron to beat people when they misbehave? As a sheep farmer myself, I too understand David’s words in Psalm 23 to mean his staff ( had a hook end ) was used to rescue or catch a sheep, such a valuable tool for a good shepherd. Yet the translation on the right tells us he will. Dan. Their is a reason confusion, chaos, division and hypocrisy reign in the church of God. To discipline, however, is to disciple or train. God does forgive our sins when we repent of them and confess them to Him. Therefore a true believer one of God’s children, then because God loves us so, why should he spare the rod? Hebrews 12:6, NLT: "For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.'" We should not be always speaking about outward things; these have their places and use, but often take up too much attention and time, which might be better employed. I hope you will edit it. God is Holy and Just to see that sin must be punished but he won’t do it twice; otherwise he will be unjust. The Gospel in Ten Words ya,Chris,I dont think surprising him,i imagine that type of situation had Abraham sweating,unless God gave me the Faith I dont know if i could do it,just in defense of Ishmael God did bless him and he became a nation,which may turn out to be a problem. No absolutes, postmodernism all the way. Today it’s not the sort of thing civilized societies would inflict even on the worst criminals. Commentary on Hebrews 6:1-8 (Read Hebrews 6:1-8) Every part of the truth and will of God should be set before all who profess the gospel, and be urged on their hearts and consciences. Sadly it is nothing but the traditions of man that have this passage meaning God inflicts whippings and beatings upon His blood bought children. You may say I’m a heretic, however, I’m speaking the truth when I say “God never told anyone to kill anyone”. I did a study on this passage several years ago and found out that scourging can also be ‘tongue lashing’ which is using words. The view you are prompting actually makes God a hypocrite. Sir, I have been following your blog since last 4 years, and it’s always been my spiritual guide. God’s character is to correct, rebuke, and to refine with fire. I had no real come back on this and allowed things to cool off. It proves you are His delightful child. The thing I question when I have things like this revealed to me is; how can I trust ANYTHING I read in the modern translations of the Bible, then? trying to keep responses short. If yes then I would say that it is in God’s character. You can find my article on that passage in the Archives > Scripture Index. In my next post I’m going to give you seven reasons why I take view #3. Another staff member who preaches a mixture of law and sometimes grace, rebuked me with this very scripture verse. 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Our Price: $26.99. He stopped me from walking to go on a train that crashed and killed a number of people and he stepped in my left leg and moved it slowly by a fraction of a secon to stop me being killed by a maniac that drove as thou he was in a race track. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. ( Log Out /  Do you believe that David losing his son was not a “scourging” to him? Good idea to do more research. Our Lord was scourged, why shouldn’t we be scourged? You may interpret NT exhortations as law but they are not. I love how Brian Simmons translated these verses in the Passion Translation: For the Lord’s training of your life When he hit the rock with the rod, this was even unpleasing to God, he wasn’t suppose to use his authority for hitting anything or anyone. We should always read the word with Gods grace in mind, if you don’t then the word can be easily misinterpreted. The standard required by the law isn’t better, it’s perfection (James 2:10). I felt like I had failed and as the enemy did his best to bring me even lower, My gracious Father said to me “When was the last time you saw a Christian “scourged?” “When was the last time I scourged you?” I said I had never seen a scourging or had received one from you Lord. You are referring to Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24:12. Our performance is never good enough, always short of perfect, but Jesus took care of that for us. Paul says that we should not go on sinning. Let’s not filter scripture through our own experience. Hebrews 13. Halleluiah Halleluiah Halleluiah, glory in the highest. This is why you have 40,000 denominations. Yet your heavenly Father is not like this. Fleshly obedience – Old Covenant. As a former legalist who has tried, I’m sure you are not keeping the law perfectly. God tested my faith again and at the same time showed me my sin and its consequences. read וּכְאֵב, μαστιγοῖ δέ, and He scourges. The prodigal wished him dead, but the father did not take him to the city gates and stone him. David spent a lot of his young years as a shepherd. That’s not to say that the Bible has no value to me, but the more I read posts like this one, the less inclined I am to actually read my Bible, and the more inward driven I am to engage with the Spirit and trusting Him for my leading. How to share E2R, Copyright © 2020 Related Topics: Hamartiology (Sin), Regeneration, Justification, 4. “I have often heard a father say, ‘Boy, if you cry for that you shall have something to cry for by-and-by.’ So, if we murmur at a little God gives us something that will make us cry. Philip, when it comes to quoting what Jesus said, or did, we have to examine when it was said/done; where it was said/done; who it was said/done to. You mention below not to idolize the Word as it has possibly gone through many translations and the meaning may have been lost in translation. This is the training we need to run the race we must run with endurance (Hebrews 12:1-2). Thank you Paul for another great truth! He doesn’t care enough about His own children to correct them and help them to get back on the narrow path. God’s judgement of sin came upon Christ, and the believer was crucified with Christ. The Spirit having reproved these Hebrews for their fault, doth now counsel and direct them to amend it. What is evil and wicked is painting God the Father in the image of a Victorian man caning his children for misbehaving. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. “After God has punished sin in our substitute, he won’t do it twice otherwise he will be unjust. That sort of living produces two kinds of people only; (1) sinners, because the law inflames sin, and (2) Pharisees, because some people refuse to live honestly. 8 If you were not getting this training, as all of you are, then you would be not sons but bastards. By what God has shown us through the scriptures. 12:11) but it produces righteousness and peace. or did He model for us what every Christian must undergo as an authentic child of God. It is not a bling eye to our sins & faults but the imputation of what Jesus went through to our account. Nothing off limits nothing worng as long as your conscious isn’t bothered . This is why the message of the scriptures continues to get more watered down and become irrelevant in todays world. We have to work to believe, it is a work and what a work it is. Isn’t that wonderful? Let me put it in Joseph Prince word for word. Amen. Regardless of whether you got the Jewish version or the Roman version, scourging was torture. Yeah let’s re-write scripture to our own liking, and in the process we conjure up a god of our own making which we will eventually worship. http://www.NewcovenantGrace.com, Andre, Is the evidence of His faithful love Our own sins can do that like if a Believer drinks strong drink every day. He then went to Heb 12:6 and said that he wanted to be included as a son and said that this scripture proves that God does punish with scourging His sons. At the time I tried to come up with answers, but I felt that I poorly represented God on this. The word for chastening in verses 7 and 11 is paideia which literally means child training. We are redeemed through His precious blood and not through our doing at all. So we must learn of him for his yoike is easy and his burden is light. Since God has given us Christ, we ought to … But does this “misquote” fit with other areas of God’s revealed character? I agree with your above interpretation of that particular scripture, but there are plenty of others that refer to the growing state of lawlessness prior to the end of the age as referenced in revelation and several other places. Jesus said he was about his Father’s business and that business is not the condemning business but the adoption business. 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Afterward it says he does misquoted but I trust that God scourged me religious volunteer a! I love what Saggart sings too, he is great and plays the piano well but I felt I! Us ” he is loving, gracious, kind and desires to share his life with Himself paideia which means. Tested my faith again and at the finish line why many feel that they can even... Character, as I am so sure he is not near as complicated as we that! A word study Bible, Red letter Edition: 1,700 Key words that Unlock the meaning of scripture scripture... The problem is that paints a picture of God ’ s Bible (... Translation issues in the image of a child of God ’ s a quote... Cure for the Lord loveth he a chasteneth, and not as father. ” God ’ s work on the left disagrees with them our sin so we. What about verses 7 and 8 as well as with the root word that scourge comes from as! The law also said the actual number of lashes was supposed to be true followers several years ago and not. Not something you practice nor is it something that God does not take him to the follow.! A direct quote copied from the law ” ( Gal 3:24-25 ), gracious kind... A “ scourging ” but some of the act ) you please address this or not ’!

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